David, I personally will have nothing at all to do with ANY social media, and hope to heaven that NPN doesn’t go down that road.
I’m really confused, because you recently told me that you wanted NPN to remain only a group of friends sharing their photos, not any kind of big competition with recognition (I had asked about the yearly picks) .
You said , above, “we will use social media to bring more members in, to get away from social media” ?
Please explain further… I really do want to understand your vision here.
Sandy
NPN needs more users. It’s still an exclusive forum. I don’t understand the negativity towards trying to expand it. It’s separate, and full of users who want the same thing - to discuss and get better. It costs money to be part of the “club.” But without a user base that cant exist.
Why not just ignore these types of things? We don’t have to join in the “competitions” and social media. But imo they are necessary.
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I could write a book about SMED, this proposition is naive and not how the medium works. They want your content (member content) for free to sell more eyeballs unsolicited promo ads. They are going to take the members wonder full images and stuff them on stamp side thumbnails. The content is now part of the FB empire collective with all of its negative ramifications.
If you are looking to grow your web presence then maybe ask members for ideas, suggestions and support. I have a few peculating that I like to put out there…
(Welcome, Jessie!)
We definitely want and need more members - lots of new ones since David took over - great!
To me, the friendly weekly EP’s and the yearly picks are an important part of that. EVERY site I’m aware of or active in recognizes member’s work with WP’s.
In the past, the WP’s and yearly picks on NPN were a pretty prestigious thing, discussed on many other forums with links to the the NPN Gallery of Picks, and this brought in a lot of new members. Who wouldn’t want the products of their photography passion recognized? - if not, I’m sure we can state in our post “Not to be considered for a WP” and simply post to share or get suggestions.
I do hope we don’t sink into the cesspool of social media.
I’m not sure anyone would drop out of Facebook, Instagram, etc - where they have 1000 friends and “likes” - to join NPN and just post here.
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Hi Sandy, thanks for your feedback. I’m not David, but I am his business partner so I will chime in. First, there is already an existing Facebook and Twitter account for NPN. This was created way before David and I joined on. We were just floating an idea out there for members to provide feedback. We were just thinking it would be nice to display member’s photos on there to introduce NPN. NANPA and other photography forums have a presence on Instagram, so it was just a thought. It wouldn’t turn into a competition, just a way to show people was NPN is about. As Jesse stated, it’s still a pretty elusive forum. We don’t want to attract the crowd that is just in it for likes. It would be based on showing a member’s photo that they had previously agreed to. It would not be a hash-tagged mess trying to win popularity. A lot of photographers have left facebook, and they have turned to Instagram. It was just an idea to reach another group of people. While NPN will not turn into a “social media extravaganza”, we also want to show others what it is. There are plenty of nature photographers on Instagram that would love to involved in NPN.
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I think Jordan nicely summed up how the NPN instagram account could be used to help promote it and the members. This will in no way affect what we do here on NPN, if you don’t like social media then just stay off it, we won’t share members photos without their consent, so this really has no affect on those that don’t like it. I’m quite confused by the bitterness toward this.
So you are a new member and just joined. why? you want info on how your printer works and why your images come out looking poorley and how to improve. You want to ask the pros ? We know a lot about this stuff. Some are working in Fine Art printing. Some have work for years with Nikon Ambassadors who know printing backwards and forward.
You put some money in the game to play and ask Q’s on this site. You put your image up asking for advice. You content is here, it was not free for you to make that content. You want quality work, you don’t want to waste paper, ink, etc…
So say I give you the secret formula to print, then some Joe Q. publick stumbles in, becuase we have removed the barriers for entry, to see what crits/info is avail on how to print. Worse yet, that person screenshots the info and puts it up on his SMED account to let his friends how smart he is.
I don’t know what the user base here, I’m new also, 30 days in, it is heavy west coast and Utah, but that core group is wicked active and make some great stuff. Being an amerture means ‘to love’ which from what I have seen is a core value of the website.
There are plenty of other pro websites that you can goto. I’m in a few myself, a well as musuems and camera clubs. It is refeshing to see all this content on NPN from all these phtographers, full size images, of landscpae, birds, wildlife, we have stumbled into a gold mine.
The crap is out there on IG,FB,TWTR. As an indiviual you can decide what bucket of crap you want to play in. And we do have to play, but this a safe harbor that I’d prefer not get polluted by SMED.
What you bring up is open to the public currently Ed, and this is a completely different discussion.
We are talking about sharing members photos (who consent) on instagram and allowing others to mention the NPN account to help others find us and join. I get it that you hate social media, I’m not a huge fan either but we can leverage it gain more members which is ultimately what will allow NPN to thrive in the future so please keep this on topic and step down from your anti-social media soapbox, your comments will be deleted if you take this any farther as it’s bordering on insulting to those that use social media.
NPN will not be ‘polluted by social media’, the instagram account is completely separate and will affect you in no way.
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Hi there! I just want to point out that there are many nature photographers on IG that I follow, that would not be included in a “bucket of crap.” I feature some photographers on Fridays that I like to introduce to others because their work is very inspiring and creative, much like what is featured on NPN here.I don’t think it’s fair to generalize that some photographers on social media are in that “crap” category, and many of them would love to know about NPN. I understand that social media can be a world of egos, but not everyone fits into that category.
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I agree, I should not have generalized. I apologize.
Yes, I’m a new member. I joined because like I already said, I enjoy more in depth discussions that I can’t get anywhere else. That question I asked isn’t something I’d get value from somewhere else. I’m always a very active community member.
But yes, I also run a photography business and want exposure so that’s why I use social media as well. Two separate places for two separate uses.
@Ed_Fritz - it almost feels to me like you don’t like me already, and that you think I’m going to “poach” info from this site and share it. Huh? Nice to meet you too. I’ve ran into less vitriol elsewhere than I already have from you. The negative attitude isn’t appreciated, I apologize I have a different opinion than you. I enjoy the idea of this place and want it to thrive. I’m simply stating my opinion that I think it’s worth networking to get more users. And social media is a place to find more users.
And the things you point out, the fact there are pros in the industry that can help answer my questions is the exact reason I’m here. I don’t understand what you’re getting at…
I don’t just take, as you can tell I’ve also responded to help people where I have knowledge as well. Not sure what’s up with the subtle judgment. But I digress.
I simply don’t understand why the responses has been negative towards NPN trying to network for more users. After all it’s a business for them and it needs to be profitable as well.
Anyways, I don’t want to get off on the wrong foot with anyone. Appreciate the site and people already, including you. But it’s ok for some simple discussion without the negativity, and it’s ok to have different opinions.
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No worries! 
I completely get where you’re coming from with social media. I still have a love/hate relationship with it, as I think a lot of people do. It has introduced me to so many creative photographers that are just in it to share and meet other like-minded artists!
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My point is that I appreciate that you joined and reached out for help. You did so as a member. I don’t believe critiques sb are open to public.
Not sure where you think I was throwing you a negative attitude. If It came across that way, I do apologize.
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I totally misread your comment then. My apologies as well. Really must’ve misread that, now I feel stupid haha.
My bad as well brother.
Regards,
I agree with Jessie, Jennifer, and David on this. NPN is not going to social media. It’s using social media as a tool to introduce people to NPN. There seems to be confusion with this. As I understand it Instagram will be used like a news outlet to bring attention to NPN. I see nothing but good in this endeavor.
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Personally, I don’t use SM much. I’m only on FB to keep up with family and friends and most importantly to watch my Grandson grow up!
But I don’t have an issue using these SM tools to recruit new members. As I believe that is really the only goal. I see many posting on FB, and I’ll assume on other platforms as well, that they are using SM for exactly that purpose: Exposure, recruitment, “friends”, subscribers to blogs, selling e-books, getting more and more people exposed to your work. This increases your odds of selling more of your work. I get that. Probably a big reason why I gave up promoting and trying to sell me work. I suck at SM.
Relating to the comment I just posted in the other thread about public vs. private and the galleries,
You can’t grow a business remaining static. The challenge will be growing the business (more members) while keeping valuable customers.
To expand that notion, one should consider what kind of customers are you growing? Just a hunch, but I suspect the majority of new members from SM become lurkers and not contributors (from a numbers perspective) As it is. just a guess, less than 10% of the membership regularly contributes either by posting an image, or writing a comment, or both of course.
So the discussion comes full circle. The $64k question for years has been, And it’s a separate question attracting new members. But the question is, How do you increase the participation of existing members?
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Hi David. Here’s one I posted not long ago. My account is @montetrumbull.
Autumn Artistry - Golden aspen trees line a ridge with Avery Peak looming in the distance outside of Gothic, Colorado. #colorado #naturephotography #landscape_lovers #aspen #autumn
Thanks!
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David, I’m happy to participate.
@maxwaughphoto
A mother #leopard and her cub settle into their new surroundings at #MalaMalaGameReserve in #SouthAfrica. We were on hand when the mother moved her five week old cub to this new den site minutes earlier, and found this small opening through the thicket to snap a quick family portrait.
Hi David
I think this is a good idea. I heavily participate in Facebook but mostly confine my participation to closed groups. There are closed groups for many photography interests. Some people willingly share their techniques, not bothered by the copying issue.
My point is that there is a huge group of people getting together on social media to intelligently share their art and their techniques. What is different about those groups than what we have here? Well, first of all it seems to me that the female participation is higher as a percentage in the FB groups. Why? Not sure but most of the groups do not allow critiquing. Perhaps that’s why or perhaps females are reluctant to join a group of very fine photographers like this one.
At any rate, there is a huge untapped group of people out there who like to share their photography , discuss it and share techniques. I do not think it would be wise to ignore these folks because they hang out on Facebook.
Now, I am well aware of the photo stealing problem on Facebook. You can take precautions. I limit size to 750 pixels on long and frequently put a watermark across the center of the photo ( yes I’m aware that some people can get rid of it but most either don’t know the technique or can’t be bothered). It’s a weighing issue like most things in life.
This brings me to a question: if you do Instagram how will participants photos be protected and what resolution will be used?
Regards to all
Kathy
I’d like to follow up on this because I think a post of mine might have influenced David and NPNs decision on this. lm responding strictly from my life experience , a millennial who has been self employed as a photographer and videographer for almost 10 years, but only really started dedicating my work towards Landscape in 2012.
First off - I dispise what Social Media has become. I have been on Facebook since 2006ish (my college was the one of the first ones to get it). I also was on MySpace (RIP) and Geocities (remember that?!). I’ve seen it grow from something that was truly groundbreaking into the mess it is today. It’s really a shame how it has been used to influence society in negative ways. But it is here to stay (unless a huge coronal mass ejection wipes out our planet) and actually can have a positive effect when used in a communal way (NPN is in some ways Social Media…)
I bring up the “millennial” fact because most of the people been critical of social media (in many discussions) are an older generation than me. My generation and younger have had social media more ingrained I their lives and beginners are faced with an uphill battle right off the get go. It’s not as simple as it’s used to be, and one has to “feed the beast” to get seen.
For example - I got into landscape photography only a few years ago (I’ve been shooting concerts and events prior) so I missed the original NPN, Flickr, 500px and by the time I got into Instagram, the “algorithm” had been changed. Fine Art printing and Stock Photography as a business has basically tanked and it’s really been an uphill struggle trying to make it as a new photographer in the Landscape game. Everyone has a camera on their phone, and unless you have a half naked “Wanderbabe” dawning a Patagonia beanie in your photo, it’s dam near impossible to get any traction on social media.
I was excited to see NPN comeback and gladly jumped on board and paid my dues. But SM isn’t going anywhere and sticking out heads in the sand is not going to help anyone.
I would suggest a different means than just “send me a photo for consideration” - that could get messy real fast. I think it’s worth it to come up with a creative way to involve the NPN community (who want to be) in the selection of featured works. I do understand we would need to start getting some work out there so the bar should be pretty low. But I for one would enjoy a monthly or weekly contest of some sort, maybe with different categories specially for Social Media. (Or featuring the winners of weekly challenges ect)
I will also say it’s sometimes pretty quiet over here at NPN and it’s important to get the word out about what we’re all trying to do. We need to draw in more photographers that want to pay a premium, and I think cross promotion is the only way to make it in today’s world. Bottom line is - Social Media is the best way to do that. It’s not like we can stand on the corner with handbills in front of Trader Joe’s…
Anyways - with the new generation of NPN, I think it’s vital to also tap into the new generation of photographers and get them to see the benefits of joining.
Just my .02